Unigine in webgl

[anthony.liot]

Hi,

 

I'm just want to show the very good capaciy of unigine to work in browser.

 

I'm tried a lot of tech for do that, plugin (npapi/ActiveX), japplet, flascc ( flash stage 3D ), but all of this need download plugin or have java VM.

 

I was no very familiar with the webgl tech, but i decide to try that, and without a lot of modification i successfully have result.

 

you can try the webgl crypt version here :

 

http://test-player.actisku.com/tests/cppjs/crypt.html only on FF > 15 and Chrome > 22

 

He take a little bit time in the first part because i download all data of crypt ( 50Mb ) that depending of the connection, but after the engine take 10sec for launching crypt on FF and 20sec on Chrome

 

I do some test on other browser Safari and IE (with plugin IEWebPlug) can be work but only with debug version, i need to do some correction in my JS.

 

Opera have some bug in her implementation of WebGL and i have a bug in the shader.

 

Anyway, i do this work very quickly. And the result is very interesting.

[binstream]

Really cool stuff!

[ivan.cuevas]

It would be nice to have an official support for this renderer ;) :rolleyes:

[steve.brodie]

Anthony, you should talk to steve3d. He has also successfully implemented a webplayer. It would be worth exchanging some notes to get the best working version possible.

 

And +1 for official support for Unigine webplayer. A lot of our clients are asking for it.

[anthony.liot]

@steve After 3 years working on Ungine, i implement a lot of webplayer version and each are pro and con.

 

My first was an npapi and activex, worked on IE FF CHROME SAFARI on Linux / Win / OsX, for me was the best. But working on international survey on 3D shop, a lot of people are complitely incapable to install a plugin. After that we forgot the plugin :), but i thing on my own time, i try to make that work again that will be easy on Win and Linux, but a lot of last change on OSX put more difficult to make that work easily on this platform ...

 

My second was an java applet, and the result was impressive for just some hour of work and a lot of people have java vm. But, this years, java was blocked for security problem, on OSX is disabled by default :( and the jawt change it's more difficult to have access to window handle on OSX ...

 

My last work is on Flash and WebGL, i start when flash (alchemy) was complitely free (no royalties) the work it's more heavy, build Unigine it's the easy part, and make working Unigine without render it's easy. BUt after, bind the opengles to stage3d it's very fastidious ...

It's necessary to convert glsl to agal too, it's work not impossible, but fastidious. And the last update of Flash add royalties. And Flash need plugin install.

 

WebGL, it's different, because it's 'young' tech, all browser are still working on that. But, same if Safari Opera are some trouble all browser except IE work with this tech, and no plugin. But the problem is not thread on JS, i'm still working for improve performance.

Like use WebCL.

 

I think the better solution for performance is use a classical plugin but with all browser and the change of each os it's a big stuff and need people on that every time.

Flash make the buzz, with unreal, may be Webgl can do the buzz with Unigine. I'm working a lot with Mozilla guys, they are very motivated, and was very impress with the Crypt demo. Opera guys have some interest too. More difficult to have some contact with Apple Safari developer and Chrome developer ( but chrome working well, except some trouble with fullscreen ...).

[binstream]

Anthony, thank you for the great summary!

 

The main reason why we don't provide "web deployment" feature is all this mess with different browsers, including outdated ones.

Since Unigine is targeted to large scenes, it means a lot of content, therefore a web player is virtually useless.

 

We do hope that WebGL will change the situation, but it will take time when it will be available in all browsers.

[anthony.liot]

Денис, если в любое время вы передумаете, дайте мне знать. :)

[steve.brodie]

Hi Anthony, I had a look at your website. It has really come a long way since the first images I saw years ago. Its is an impressive system.

[anthony.liot]

Thanks Steve, the last years was very intensive.

[manguste]

Indeed, great work, Anthony.

[demostenes]

 

The main reason why we don't provide "web deployment" feature is all this mess with different browsers, including outdated ones.

Since Unigine is targeted to large scenes, it means a lot of content, therefore a web player is virtually useless.

 

This is IMHO absolutely correct approach. Engine mush have target group and keep this direction. Once you start to support everything, it is way to hell. Nice warning is Unity3D. Each version is less and less stable, bugs are not fixed for years, almost nothing works properly.....

We ve picked Unigine exactly for the reason, that it is obviously made to support large games (stable, streaming, good terrain engine...) and it is not bloated/crippled/limited by various web players and consoles. We hope, that is will stay like this.

[steve.brodie]

I somewhat agree with your preference for Unigine to support limited platforms, as it slows down overall development and increases the possibility of bugs. However, I would say that the majority of Unigine developers are in areas, other than games, such as simulation and retail. Therefore, I think the Unigine team understands that they need to provide support for non game applications.

 

I think the best approach is to make sure that it there is enough support in the source for 3rd parties like

ACTISKU to easily create, and maintain plugins for other platforms, such as a webplayer.

[binstream]

I agree with Steve, that's why we provided additional support to Anthony while he were working on web player.

[anthony.liot]

Hi, i put on the server some details for how make Unigine compatible with WebGL, if some people want try, it's no so hard and no need a lot of modif inside Unigine. Of course for do that you need the sources of Unigine.

 

You can download the webgl zip here :

 

http://test-player.actisku.com/tests/webgl/UnigineWebGl.zip

[manguste]

Anthony, great! Thank you for sharing.

[steve.brodie]

Thanks for sharing that Anthony, I think it will help a lot of people.

[anthony.liot]

Hi,

 

I update the last SDK, and i have a little problem. I lose performance during the init of engine. Before (SDK of november) Unigine took more or less 9 sec, with the last sdk it take 38 sec.

 

Do you have an idea what change who give me this result ??

 

Thanks

[qyli]

this looks very good, unfortunately the windows, linux sdk source doesn't contain the source of opengles render, can we expect it in the sdk source?

[anthony.liot]

I'm not sure but, i think emscripten work with opengl too.

 

http://mozakai.blogspot.fr/2012/05/emscripten-opengl-webgl-conversion.html

For do the test, use the openglsdl app in the sdk, and change the opengles render by OpenGL inside makefile, may be that can work.

 

I try to take a look for make it work with opengl

[manguste]

I update the last SDK, and i have a little problem. I lose performance during the init of engine. Before (SDK of november) Unigine took more or less 9 sec, with the last sdk it take 38 sec.

 

Do you have an idea what change who give me this result ??

 

Anthony, no idea, to tell the truth. No changes were made that could have caused that.

[manguste]

this looks very good, unfortunately the windows, linux sdk source doesn't contain the source of opengles render, can we expect it in the sdk source?

 

I'm afraid OpenGL ES renderer is available only in mobile SDKs.

[anthony.liot]

Hi manguste,

 

It's weird because i do a lot of test and with the same version of Emscripten Builder the result between November SDK and December SDK are different.

 

november sdk : Loading "demos/crypt/crypt.mat" 49 materials 843ms

december sdk : Loading "demos/crypt/crypt.mat" 49 materials 7882ms

 

For all materials i lose a lot of time, may be you have something new or some option was activated in the last SDK on materials.

I test with more older version of Emscripten and with two version of Firefox and the difference between the two SKD are the same. I try too, loading image with and without native browser for loading images and that change nothing.

May be some change on loading dds ??? I still searching.
 

[anthony.liot]

Time for launching crypt on all browser : 

 

--------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|

SAFARI    6.0.2                |  Loading "Engine" 5922ms       |

--------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|

FIREFOX   18.0               |  Loading "Engine" 7183ms        |

--------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|

CHROME   24.0               | Loading "Engine" 8563ms        |

--------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|

OPERA     12.12              | Loading "Engine" 11479ms       |

--------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|

[anthony.liot]

Hi, frustum i change the init of script how you say, the result is much better.

 

You can try here : 

http://test-player.actisku.com/tests/cppjs/crypt_no_native_sdk_2012_12_30.html

 

Unfortunately, the last update of firefox have regression and doesn't work. But you can try it on Chrome for windows. For mac(and linux theorically) all classic browser work.

[anthony.liot]

Some other test on heaven :

http://test-player.actisku.com/tests/cppjs/heaven2.m4v