Why is Oil Refinery demo so slow?

[janis.taranda]

On my i3-6100, 8gb ram, GTX 750 Ti (4gb) even on "very low" I got fps 24-50. Like the performance for quality is not really acceptable for full blown game engine :(

[davide445]

Not working on games I'm not sure what can be an average target platform, but looking at Steam Survey appear to me your hw might be underpowered, with the more popular rig appear to be i5, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060.

Myself using for testing some 8 years old AMD HD7950 Boost GPU that's still probably faster than a 750 Ti, when I want to have more realistic conditions I switch to the secondary GPU, a GTX 1070.

Edited April 18, 2020 by davide445

[fred.naar]

are you working on a laptop ? had a similar issue and it was using the integrated GPU... you can force that in the NVIDIA control panel

 

[janis.taranda]

1 hour ago, fred.naar said:

are you working on a laptop ? had a similar issue and it was using the integrated GPU... you can force that in the NVIDIA control panel

 

No Im not. Read my specs.

[janis.taranda]

3 hours ago, davide445 said:

Not working on games I'm not sure what can be an average target platform, but looking at Steam Survey appear to me your hw might be underpowered, with the more popular rig appear to be i5, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060.

Myself using for testing some 8 years old AMD HD7950 Boost GPU that's still probably faster than a 750 Ti, when I want to have more realistic conditions I switch to the secondary GPU, a GTX 1070.

Dude, it's not like its the first graphical thing I use :D, so:

1) Yes my gear is not very up to date. But we are talking here about "VERY LOW" quality!

2) I play games like Control and Gears5 (etc.) on medium to high quality with stable 60 fps and much more advanced graphic settings. So I can draw conclusions and compare.

[mark.pizzolatto]

Well your not going to get much help by snapping at people.

1) Unigine is not a full blow game engine, it is a rendering engine with basic functionality in certain areas.

2) Being in IT, building my own computers - I cannot tell from your specs, if you have a laptop or desktop. I have a laptop and had an old desktop that nearly had the same specs. (Yes, my laptop does have a NVIDIA 1050ti in it...)

3) finally to your question: for "very low" could mean anything in terms of settings - consider; render distance, lighting/shadows, poly count, CPU vs GPU updating of the visuals, etc...
        - the question then is: if you are getting 24-50fps, what is your fps with higher settings?

[janis.taranda]

4 hours ago, mark.pizzolatto said:

Well your not going to get much help by snapping at people.

1) Unigine is not a full blow game engine, it is a rendering engine with basic functionality in certain areas.

2) Being in IT, building my own computers - I cannot tell from your specs, if you have a laptop or desktop. I have a laptop and had an old desktop that nearly had the same specs. (Yes, my laptop does have a NVIDIA 1050ti in it...)

3) finally to your question: for "very low" could mean anything in terms of settings - consider; render distance, lighting/shadows, poly count, CPU vs GPU updating of the visuals, etc...
        - the question then is: if you are getting 24-50fps, what is your fps with higher settings?

I'm not snapping

1) But I think it's being promoted like that

2) OK so I have a desktop

3) "Very low" is a setting in the demo I'm referring to. With it, visually it looks really crunched down (with looks like that one expects good frame-rates). With Higher settings the FPS scales down from 24-50 (average 45), to worse.

Anyways, I don't want to start a big brain storm here. More hoping on a explanation from Unigine devs and demo creators on the bad fps theme. Because I want to start some projects on this engine, but if it performs like this with larger number of 3d assets, then it's no goodie. :)

[demostenes]

Answer is simple, your HW is obsolete. 

GeForce GTX 750 Ti is cca 5x slower than 2080TI (best GPU possible today). Even very cheap GPU under 150 USD like GTX 1650 SUPER will be 3x faster.

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

i3-6100 (desktop version) is cca 30 percent slower than best CPUs today in single thread (crucial for rendering performance) and in multithread maybe 5x-20x slower.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

This is deadly combination, so such low framerate is not surprising in scene like oil rafinery (if I remember well, there is 150+ light sources). This demo is really not about rendering just geometry. In that case FPS would be much higher. Anyway on modern HW you would easily have 3x better FPS (and that will be better mid level HW, not the TOP).

Unigine is currently the fastest engine on the market. MUCH faster than Unity in complex scenes.

We have fantastic performance with Unigine, even in very crazy scenes (unoptimized) with 10k+ objects with 40k+ surfaces and 5+ million of polygons in frustum. Unity was not even able to start, it simply crashed. But you need modern HW.

Edit: I ve just tried on my HW and I have cca 180 FPS on low quality and around 120 FPS on high quality in full HD resolution.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by demostenes

[janis.taranda]

7 hours ago, demostenes said:

Answer is simple, your HW is obsolete. 

GeForce GTX 750 Ti is cca 5x slower than 2080TI (best GPU possible today). Even very cheap GPU under 150 USD like GTX 1650 SUPER will be 3x faster.

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

i3-6100 (desktop version) is cca 30 percent slower than best CPUs today in single thread (crucial for rendering performance) and in multithread maybe 5x-20x slower.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

This is deadly combination, so such low framerate is not surprising in scene like oil rafinery (if I remember well, there is 150+ light sources). This demo is really not about rendering just geometry. In that case FPS would be much higher. Anyway on modern HW you would easily have 3x better FPS (and that will be better mid level HW, not the TOP).

Unigine is currently the fastest engine on the market. MUCH faster than Unity in complex scenes.

We have fantastic performance with Unigine, even in very crazy scenes (unoptimized) with 10k+ objects with 40k+ surfaces and 5+ million of polygons in frustum. Unity was not even able to start, it simply crashed. But you need modern HW.

Edit: I ve just tried on my HW and I have cca 180 FPS on low quality and around 120 FPS on high quality in full HD resolution.

 

You should really not just read the 1st POST and jump to answer. My hardware incompetence was already suggested and I responded to that. So I will just partly repeat my self:

It's not like its the first graphical thing I use :)), so....

Yes my gear is not very up to date, but we are talking here about "VERY LOW" quality! A good game engine should scale along with quality settings so people with weaker gear can also enjoy the product by trading off the visual quality. That said - on "Very low" it should perform good on older gear (even older then main). Observed with naked eye the performance for quality on "very low" is not really acceptable (looks like good old Half-Life 2 on medium quality, but performs as new games on Ultra settings). I play new games like Control and Gears5 (UE4.) on medium to high quality with stable 60 fps and much more advanced graphic settings and looks. So I can draw conclusions and compare to that (not just Unity). 150 light sources is a bad excuse - with proper clustering and BHV tarvesal I have run demos with 3k light sources and stable FPS. That said - conclusion of yours "Unigine is currently the fastest engine on the market" is not really valid, at least not for low quality setups.

Would still like to hear some comments from devs, please :)))

 

[silent]

Hi Janis,

It's not entirely correct to compare a final game with dozens and hundred of artists and programmers involved who can optimize each aspect of the game and a demo that was made by 4 people :)

First of all, you need to make sure that you are running Release engine build. To do so, select Copy as project and change the Engine type from Development to Release

In that case you should already have the higher performance due to lower CPU and RAM overhead.

Second, this demo is heavily using multi-threaded ObjectMeshClusters update, but since you have 2 physical cores and 2 logical ones, it's hard to make a good parallelism here (we also need to leave a single core for the GPU driver and OS needs).

You also mentioned that you have 8GB of RAM, but what really important is if you have 2x4GB DIMM or 1x8GB? In case of dual channel memory you can also gain additional 15-20% of the performance.

Thanks!

[rohit.gonsalves]

Dear Janis,

I want to remain out of the debate of low and high configurations. I am just replying this topic as you have asked for.

Quote

Would still like to hear some comments from devs, please :)))

Off Course, I have seen Unigine running on low end GPU; mobile android  long back;  probably 11 years before. But then Unigine shifted focus and clearly selected one path for their development and strategy. 

For me all Unity, Unreal, Unigine all are computer graphics engine with different tools. All are awesome and have very different strategies.  I am working majorly on Unigine and also on Unreal. For some reasons I like Unigine.

But if you want to compare two engines or games on one hardware platform; the other parameters should remain same. Otherwise you are not performing apple to apple comparison and it will surely take you to wrong conclusion; and some time in life you will come across experts, real experts who will bomb you.

So my suggestion is Take Unity, take Unreal, take Unigine. Use your PC or Laptop you have mentioned. Create simple ground and one complicated mesh in 3D Editor. Say 2,00,000 Polygons. (This is how we write in India, I really get confused with millions terminology. ;-) )

Now in all three engines load the stuff and multiply the mesh count on initialization. I hope you could do that easily. Then report the comparison and results. Also remember In unreal don't forget to make your added meshes Moveable other wise Unigine will start dynamic lighting and Unreal will not. So you must know how all these engines work on startup.

Once you do this, Please post results. And ask tangible questions with Tangible Reports. I was part of a team which have done all such exercises in the past. Once you make real Apple to Apple, I am sure you will not ask such questions and will have a lot of know how. Because the topic of this post is in my opinion is without apple to apple comparison and not in the order with Unigine Lovers... ;-)

Cheers.

Rohit

[janis.taranda]

OK thank you guys. Finally some good points :)

[binstream]

UNIGINE 2.11 supports several GPU generations: https://developer.unigine.com/en/docs/2.11/start/requirements

Some important points to keep in mind:

1. GeForce 700 and 900 series are marked as "Limited support". They are supported, but not recommended for optimal experience.

2. Samples and demos in the SDK have settings optimized for GeForce 1000 series and newer GPUs. Can they be optimized to run on slower GPUs? Yes, they can - but we decided to target what is considered internally a typical configuration.

3. Can the engine run on older GPUs - yes, it can technically run on GeForce 600 series. But in order to achieve good performance both settings and content must be severely optimized.

4. When you start developing your project, the release will not happen immediately. Regularly it will take maybe 1-2 years before it hits target audience. So it is reasonable to look into the future hardware.

5. UNIGINE is optimized for typical mid/high-range hardware used in enterprise or for VR projects, i.e. starting from GTX 960, preferably having SSD. This is our internal decision. There are technologies out there which supports older systems better.